Brave Enough to Change Direction

Millie McDevitt

leaving my career. So I had joined the UK Foreign Office, the civil service nearly 25 years ago and then just came to a came to a a time when it it no longer was the right thing for me. For me that was huge because my whole identity had been wrapped up in being a diplomat, working overseas representing the UK I'd done this from from, you know, at a young age, from my from my twenties straight up pretty much straight out of of after university. And all of a sudden, I it was not going to be who I was carrying on listen to yourself. Don't listen to other people. Just listen to what you really, really want. It might be that you want to do it, but conversely it might be that you actually really don't want to do it and someone else is telling you to do that. And I think both both things need courage, either doing it or not doing it.

Alicia Noble

Hello and welcome to Courage Loading. I'm your host, Alicia Noble, leadership coach and career transition strategist. And today we've got the first episode of Courage Loading Moments. So this is where I interview guests who come along to talk about a moment or moments in their career or leadership where they found the courage to make a change. And that change isn't always about going into something bigger, but it's almost always something that better fits their life at that stage. And today I have the pleasure of welcoming Millie McDevitt as our first guest of Courage Loading Moments. Welcome Millie. How are you?

Millie McDevitt

Good thanks, Alicia. How are you today?

Alicia Noble

I'm good, thank you. And thank you for joining us today. Millie is a former British diplomat and she's recently opened her own life coaching business. And today we're going to explore a little bit more about Millie and her work in different territories and different cultures. So, Millie, tell us who is Millie McDevitt?

Millie McDevitt

Gosh, where do I start? So I suppose first and foremost, I'm a mum. I have two wonderful daughters and and a fantastic husband. And I'm also a daughter and a sister, an aunt and a niece, all those sort of things, I guess, on the on the personal side. Professionally, as you mentioned, I was a British diplomat, worked with the UK Foreign Office for over 20 years. As well as in local government here in the UK for a few years and recently transitioned out of that and have set my own private practice up as an international executive life coach.

Alicia Noble

Lovely. And Millie, what does courage mean to you?

Millie McDevitt

For me it's about I suppose opening yourself up into maybe uncomfortable situations, but consciously I think. It encapsulates for me all sorts of different activities, mindsets. And I don't think it can be defined in any one way. It's how you define it. So for me, courage is as I say, kind of doing something which pushes me out of my comfort zone and makes me feel do something which I maybe normally wouldn't do or would have written off. Previously and take those risks, but for someone else it could be something entirely different.

Alicia Noble

Yeah. And I I I love the way you articulated that because I think even for, you know, if I think of myself, there are at some points where, you know, the same thing would be courage in in one situation, but not in another, given various circumstances. So so that's really interesting. And I I wonder if you can share with us one of your biggest moments of courage and and what that meant for you at the time.

Millie McDevitt

So I think one of the biggest of a courageous acts would be leaving my career. So I had joined the UK Foreign Office, the civil service nearly 25 years ago and then just came to a came to a a time when it it no longer was the right thing for me. And for me that was huge because my whole identity had been wrapped up in being a diplomat, working overseas representing the UK as I said, I'd done this from from, you know, at a young age, from my from my twenties straight up pretty much straight out of of after university. And all of a sudden, I it was not going to be who I was carrying on being. So I think that took a lot of a huge amount of courage. And it didn't come easily, I'm gonna say. It took me it took me a while to I suppose talk myself into doing it.

Alicia Noble

Mm. And do you mind sharing something about your approach to talking yourself into it?

Millie McDevitt

Yeah, I mean I suppose there were incremental steps and signs. I I remember that I was on a leadership course, for example, and it things just didn't feel right. And I'd recently come back into Foreign Office after a sabbatical and I kept bumping into people from my twenty-five-year career, some of whom I hadn't seen for a very long time. And I remember talking to a coach actually at that time and and and a coach mentor and they said maybe it's a sign that you're getting closure from different aspects of your life and you're finding out what people from, you know, twenty years ago are now doing. And I kind of took that quite seriously and thought, actually maybe there is something the universe almost is telling me that I've now found out what that person who I haven't seen for fifteen years is doing and I can close that box, as it were. And be satisfied with what I did then and and then move on to the next chapter. So it was incremental and then I sort of spent some time wondering, well what is it I really want to do? Where where is where am I going to find then my purpose, having spent so long getting deriving my purpose and I suppose kind of what I really wanted to do from from from my cr my career or my employment

Millie McDevitt

as it were. So so yeah, a lot of soul searching, talking to other people, talking to like my family and good friends about what was I what did they recognise me in terms of my skill set and what I was naturally quite good at? What did I feel comfortable doing and what did I what did I really want to be doing? How did I see myself in the next for the next part of my life, the next stage of my life, and what fitted with my lifestyle, my family's lifestyle now? So yeah, lots of kind of if you like steps. And I'm quite a logical person. So it was it was almost sort of kind of yeah, finding my purpose and what I was gonna do n next almost by eliminating the things which I'd well actually not actually much as they sounded fun or interesting, actually not realistic or not what I really, really wanted to do. Process of elimination.

Alicia Noble

Yeah. And how did it feel kind of, you know, you talk about your identity being, you know, so wrapped up in everything. And obviously you you'd spent years almost growing up in that environment and living in different what was what was the hardest thing to give up or, you know, give up in that sense?

Millie McDevitt

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I really did grow up, you know, more than twenty years. You know, I started as a as a twenty something year old before I got married, married, had children, all of that, raised a family and and I'm kind of on the other side as it were. I suppose what it what it meant in terms of giving up was perhaps security, you know, the monthly kind of pay cheque. I'm fortunate enough that I've still in contact with, you know, the good friends I've made along the way. So actually, you know, I do miss some I miss some people, but actually people that I'm made I'm close to and I was close to I'm still close to. I suppose there's more that I don't miss. Actually, I don't miss the

Millie McDevitt

kind of what's gonna hit me today. I don't I do not miss if I'm honest, like turning on the news or opening the newspaper or opening the newspaper and going and going, god, that's the latest international crisis. Is that what I'm gonna be working on in the next few months? So I don't I've gotta admit I don't miss that. Although I do miss maybe a little bit of the adrenaline rush and being involved in some of the most high-profile events happening. So, you know, I remember getting it many of us were involved in across the civil service and across other organisations in the the King's coronation. And for me that was a huge, huge honour, regardless of what you kind of where you stand on the on the royal family, you know, just being involved in a an international event like that is huge.

Millie McDevitt

And for me to have been involved that was a real was a real Proud moment, I would say. So I suppose not being involved in really massive things like that, maybe I will come to miss. Not at the moment though.

Alicia Noble

Hmm. Yeah. And so what is it that drives you at the moment? So when you think of your almost day to day courage and and where you need to sometimes dig a little deeper, what what springs to mind?

Millie McDevitt

think for me it's really knowing that I very consciously made this decision, I thought really, really long and hard about it. Remembering why I made the decision. And for me one of the big driving factors was to have that freedom to decide what I was going to do when and who with and also be able to enjoy other things. When I wanted to. So the smaller things are you know, a lot of my friends already had their own businesses or work for themselves or just had a little bit more of a looser schedule and if working in a for a large organisation, a lot of the time commuting or actually being overseas, there are lots of things I missed out on, you know, just the casual coffee catch ups or whatever,

Millie McDevitt

which I now am able to do. So that kind of drives me, just knowing that it was a conscious decision, what I've given up has been replaced by that freedom and that sort of self that happiness of just being able to just be and do what I want.

Alicia Noble

And I I know one of the things that you've previously said to me that's important to you is connection. And so when I listen to you talk about about that and kind of connecting with people and meeting up, I'm curious. So when you think about connection, you know, what I I can imagine and hopefully I'm not putting words in your mouth because we've we've have talked about this before, but in your old before and kind of going into different territories. There was a lot of work you needed to do around, you know, connecting with the people around you and where you, you know, you found yourself. And so I'm I'm just curious about what connection means to you now and how you relate that or how you've learned from past experiences.

Millie McDevitt

Yeah, so I suppose like in whilst I was working in moving around different countries, I was fortunate enough to learn the language as part of my role because in order to work I had to communicate in the host country's language. So and I was able to, I was fortunate enough to like learning languages and was privileged enough to be able to learn. So for me that was one element of being able to connect, was being able to first and foremost communicate in some way. And and I think I've carried that on, even though I'm, you know, in the UK where I you know I speak the language that everyone speaks, by still trying to find some form of something which connects me when I meet someone new. So, you know, we we kind of obviously we can communicate and I, you know, try and use some, you know, kind of find topics that are of common well common ground. And then some people have kind of often have said to me that my superpower is being able to find some element that will connect me to anyone. I mean, everyone has heard of the of that kind of phrase of, you know, the everyone is connected by kind of is it the power of six or there's only six six people between everyone. And I've often thought it's far fewer than that. So so for me, in order to then kind of feel comfortable wherever I am or whoever whoever I'm kind of talking with or the situation, it's it's then being able to find that element that relates me to them or that situation. And and that relates wherever you are in the world, really, whether you're at home, whether you're in foreign country, whether you're joining a new organisation, whatever aspect is Something which is just a little bit new and unfamiliar. I always think about how can I communicate who I am with them and then kind of find that connection and then kind of feel comfortable and at ease and kind of feel like, okay, I belong in this conversation or I belong in this organisation or I belong in this country.

Alicia Noble

And so the way that you've linked communication to connection to belonging. I wonder if you can tell us a little bit more about that, because I know that you've lived in different countries. What is it like, you know, kind of the the belonging element of it? I know you've learned the languages and learned to communicate, but just because you can can communicate doesn't necessarily mean it feels like you belong.

Millie McDevitt

Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose it's something I struggled with, particularly when I first started my career. So, I so I actually grew up in many different countries. So I was born not in the UK but elsewhere. I was an expat child. So my father worked overseas in many different countries, but the UK was very much home for me, although my parents are are of Indian origin. So already I had a number of different states of belonging. So I felt like I belonged in an international global community because I had spent my childhood and my kind of early educational years in different countries. I felt that I sort of belonged I suppose in some way with India because my that was my heritage and like my family. And yet I also belonged in the UK because this is where I was very much home and and where I was educated and and etc. And so when I joined the UK Diplomatic Service, which is something I kind of dreamt of but didn't actually think would happen. I mean and you know, really didn't kind of imagine someone like me joining that. You very it was very much when I joined kind of something you would see as sort of the the white middle aged man from a certain background. And it which I'm happy to say is changing and it's more kind of rapidly now but still has a way to go. But anyway, kind of when I joined I was like, gosh, there was a lot of that imposter syndrome. Do I belong in this team Do I belong in as a diplomat? Do I belong and when I was went overseas my first posting, that was particularly interesting because I was representing the UK and yet the country so I went to a South Asian country. I was not what they expected a British diplomat to look at. And you know I was a young a woman of Asian descent. Who had a very English accent, a very British accent, could speak some of their language, well spoke their language, but I spoke it with this odd accent. So I didn't look like how they imagined I'd look like. And yet when I spoke, I I sounded like they imagined a British person trying to speak their language that could sound like. And I was very lucky because at that time my head of mission was fantastic and introduced me and really as the person to go to if they need if someone needed to speak to a the the particular areas that I was covering. So at the time it was around communication and and public diplomacy and what the UK was doing in terms of public diplomacy. So so he was a real support for me and really championed me and made me feel like I belonged there in his in his embassy, in the organi in where I was serving. And it as part really felt like and made me feel like I belonged with the team. Even if maybe it was a bit a bit more of a struggle to convince others that I belonged then. And when I mean others, I mean others beyond my work organisation, maybe beyond the kind of the immediate I suppose my immediate stakeholders. So that was a real learning curve. And then I sort of developed that kind of notion of who I am throughout my career. And I suppose that's why I really focused on learning the language because that's how I felt I could communicate and I could kind of feel that connection and the belonging. And people could warm to me even if initially they were quite confused by how I looked and who I really was. And I think a lot of people when they're particularly when they're moving around different countries feel the same way. They feel quite can feel quite discombobulated, sort of like, why am I here? Particularly if they arrive in a country that maybe they aren't able to work in, so they're an accompanying partner, accompanying spouse, or they're able to work but in a different way, or for whatever reason, it's it's just it's just not familiar for them. And I think it can be really lonely. It can be it can take you by surprise because initially your first six months can be or three months can be really exciting, you're learning about where you live, etc. And then you kind of go, this is my reality, and I've got however many more years, two, three, even four years of this. And I think it can be really hard for people to try and figure out, well, how are they going to find their purpose and how how are they gonna find themselves then? And I do think that we have different almost sort of different forms of ourselves in different situations and different countries doesn't mean that you're not authentic. But the Millie that I am sat here in my house talking to you isn't necessarily the same Millie that I would be, say if I was working in, I don't know, France, for example, and talking in French and operating there of course there'd be elements of me, but I would be I'd sort of adapt. But that's there's an I don't see there being anything wrong with that. There's just a different there's different facets of the same person. So I think for me around belonging, it is about really trying to understand what is it that you want to do now and how what how can you do that? And how can you do it in such a way that feels right to you, makes you feel like you belong and so that you're not yearning to be somewhere else all the time. Or wishing the time to go away. So my first posting, I remember the first few months, I really kind of, you know, it was exciting adventure, but I also just wanted to be back in the UK where I just kind of, you know, no one questioned that I was British. And and then kind of shook myself and went, no, no, this is what I've always wanted to do. How am I going to make it work? So yeah, I I I think it's there there there are challenges.

Alicia Noble

And wow, that was such a brilliant answer. And there's so much in there. I'm I'm trying to think where where I go next. But I I really love the whole, you know, kind of when you were talking about almost the different versions of you or the different identities, because I think there's I think it's Herminia Ibarra that talks about possible selves and different working identities. And I think it's so important that we know who we are and the why of you know why we are doing things because I don't know about you but I I think so I often think about when I was growing up and you you know when people talk about someone's changed or why are you different in that context but it can still be authentically you in in that sense so it's and it's something that I'm learning as well. And so I think it's so important that we understand that as part of our identity or identities because it can be difficult when you move countries. I mean I have also moved countries from South Africa to the UK. I was still very young and I I completely resonate, you know, kind of coming here in my early 20s. It was all an adventure. And so it was it was very different to sometimes when I speak to people who are coming here a little older and have especially when they have a family and kids that need to go to school. And it's it's completely different, different challenges. And so, you know, there's a couple of things I wanted to pick up on. So firstly, you talked about, and this is something that I think so many of my listeners will probably resonate with. You said you didn't think that job was was something that someone like you would get or do. Tell me a little bit more just about that.

Millie McDevitt

Yeah, it's i it it's it was very much kind of, you know, a surprise to me when I got the offer to join the diplomatic service. So so the actual application process, I won't go into the the details of it, but it's very it's very well it certainly was then very long and every month a different you'd get through to a the next stage, the next stage, the next stage, and then every month I'd be like, Okay, this is the stage when I'm told sorry, you knew you've not made it to the next stage and every month I did until I finally was invited to join. And yeah, I just it was just a complete surprise, but also but also one that I didn't I suppose allowed kind of stopping my development in any way or kind of hold me back. You know thinking about your the theme of your podcast, that I reflecting back, I think would have taken a lot of courage because I wouldn't I would have I didn't know anyone else, for example, who was in the diplomatic service at all. I didn't really kind of, I suppose know a massive amount about what would what was li what would lie ahead. And and and it really was a a big adventure for me. It was like great I you know this is what I I think you this this is what happens and I've got an interest in in current affairs and in international affairs and I I love learning languages and I you know being in different countries. But it was yeah it just did it I think back to my younger self and think, wow that quite a brave thing to do to kind of join a an organisation to join, where you didn't really didn't really know much about it other than what you kind of you know, the big grand stories and kind of the big events of the day and you kind of hear about so and so kind of diplomat and kind of and but none of them kind of were what I associated myself to be. So so yeah, it took a lot of courage and I don't think there was identity reinvention at that time. I think maybe I was so young, I was just like, right, okay, let's see what happens next. I was very lucky in that the people I I made, you know, I I'm still very good friends with some of the people I joined with. And Kind of when I met them I was like, okay, so not everyone is there isn't one stereotype. There isn't a kind of a certain mould that everyone is. Yes, there are certain people. There are some people that fit the mould of what what you kind of traditionally have kind of imagined. But there are others that that aren't. And yeah, I kind of just found who I could who I got on with, who I could communicate with on my level, and then from that, you know, as I was saying, kind of connected with them. We had things in common with lot of us had had an interest in in in international affairs or kind of being overseas or had travelled or worked or whatever it is. And and then I was okay, now I belong with this group of people and therefore this group of people, we're all here in this organisation. Yeah.

Alicia Noble

And I absolutely commend you for that because it does take courage when you can't see someone like you that's doing something, or when you've just thought, I'd never get that. The easiest thing is just to opt out before you've even started. And then, like you say, it was such a long process to then motivate yourself to keep going. Because the the closer you get to that end line, the harder it would become to actually manage a rejection, isn't it? But you you've got to put yourself out there. In order to see what happens. So yeah, so well done for for sticking with it. And, you know, you you picked up on belonging again, you know, how you found your tribe essentially

Alicia Noble

in that. And I think it's so important in terms of, you know, finding those people. But in particular in your earlier response, I picked up on you talking about your boss and you said, you know, the sponsorship. That you got. And I I wondered if you can tell us a little bit more about that and what that meant to you. Because my personal experience has always been from a especially when you are potentially underrepresented or, you know, you you're in a new environment, that sponsorship can often make a really big difference.

Millie McDevitt

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean I would look at it beyond sponsorship. I think wherever I've been, I've always tried to find that one person who who will keep me going as it were, outside of my immediate family. And that one person who I can kind of go to and sort have a laugh with or just, you know, sort of Moan, who might be sharing similar experiences, or someone who just understands the situation. So in in in the example I was talking about, you know, that I was very fortunate I did have that sponsor, someone, but that's not always been the case in throughout my career. Times I have I haven't had that, but I've always had someone who I have been able to as I say, rely on. That's been my person, my go-to person. And I do kind of believe that most of us do need some sort of human to human kind of contact. Someone who you can Say okay, that's my person. That person I can just go to who maybe they're not going through exactly the same that I'm going through, but they are someone I can speak to or that understands what I'm going through. If it is someone who can also sponsor you and c or or mentor you, then even better. But I know that's not always the case. Although where it has happened, it has been extremely powerful. Like the smallest things can actually be the most helpful. I think some people sometimes feel like I could never mentor someone or I could never sponsor because this means this, this, this, but actually it's the smallest thing. So going back to my earlier kind of situation, that just the mere fact that my boss kind of had said that to me and then introduced me a few times, that changed like my whole three years. And I think I don't know if he'll even remember that or if he kind of realised that, but that was massive to me. And for him it took took him like, you know, a minute or something. But it was it was, I would say, kind of quite career defining. And unfortunately I've had the opposite as well. And I think most people who've who kind of worked and kind of have unfortunately had like experiences with people who haven't necessarily been as positive role models. And again having someone else, someone that you can go to and just sort of go, I'm having a really tough time, X, Y, or Z is is is really kind of for me I think helpful.

Alicia Noble

I so agree with that. I think the I always kind of tell myself that it's up to me to seek out that person and to to find so whether it's a sponsor or mentor, and I think sometimes we make it more difficult because we want to give someone a label to their role. I don't think everything necessarily needs that formality, but like you say, it's having that kind of safe space that

Alicia Noble

you can just share. And it it just makes life so much easier. And I think we can all sometimes just do that little bit in terms of, you know, introducing someone or pointing them in the right direction. It's it often means so much more than you can yeah, we just we just think think it's something small when we're doing it, but actually it can have a real impact for that person. And I I feel like that almost leads on to, you know, some of the work you do right now. In terms of, you know, who you support and how you support them. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?

Millie McDevitt

Yeah, sure. So I suppose it won't surprise you and others to kind of know. So my focus has really been working with people who are overseas already or transitioning to to to life in a in another country. Mostly kind of accomp those who are accompanying someone, so the accompanying spouse or partner, but not exclusively. And it's also not exclusively just those who are in the diplomatic world, even though that has been my world, but but wider expat community. And and why I say that is because I think they have quite unique challenges. And I and given my wider experience, excuse me, that's how I f feel like I can best work, sort of work through support. I don't really like to use that phrase support because the work people do is often coming from themselves. I mean as coaches we often use this phrase that we're your we'll be your thinking partner. And we actually are, we kind of walk alongside you. We're someone we can be that person that you can test ideas out or kind of, you know, we're not there to judge you. And my f my kind of approach is very much kind of really challenging and kind of asking getting people to think in in a different way or sort of Yeah, just rather than just sort of assume that what they want to do is actually the right thing for them, like turn it on their head. Is that really the right thing for them? And so yes, my work is is largely with people who are, as I say, overseas, maybe have been there for a little while or or have just recently arrived and and just feel a little kind of just out of place. They don't really know why they're there, they don't know what their purpose is. Everything feels a just a little bit just not satisfying and they don't want life to just be on pause or you know, I don't I always say, you know, it's it's I wouldn't want anyone to be just counting the days until they leave somewhere. Kind of, you know, life is for living. How can you make the most of where you are now? So so yes, my my work is very much with those in the kind of the international global mobility space and helping them. Really take advantage and make the most of wherever in the world they are. And and a lot of people say to me, but Millie, in the days of kind of, you know, on the online world, surely there's not a need for that. And I think, well actually there's even more of a need because that human connection is something that people miss even more. You can't live your whole life online. At least I don't think you can. So what is it what is it you can do to to get that sense again that sense of connection. So it's not just through a T V like a video a computer screen or just on your phone. And and and really find your purpose and your happiness. And it sounds so simplistic but I think at the core of it it's it's really that like how can someone be happy where they are now?

Alicia Noble

Yeah. I think that, you know, u Ul everything that you've said, the the human connection, the I I personally, kind of being in a new country, I think you can read up on it on it, you can Google it, you can kind of get your phone to take you on a map from one place to another. But I think actually being able to speak to someone, to understand what certain cultural things mean, or to just be able to kind of have that connection, because sometimes that's what you you don't have kind of coming in. So being having a person on the other end that you can speak to and that's real and that you can share with your frustrations and that can actually almost, you know, have empathy with you. I think that's so important when you're somewhere new. So yes, I think people would be really lucky to be able to work with you. And also I think it's so, you know, as coaches we always say that you don't need to have experience in a situation in order to partner with with your client. But I think when you do have experience, firsthand experience about settling into a new country, for example, I think that it it does help that little bit. I don't know if you find that in your conversations.

Millie McDevitt

Yeah, I mean obviously I'm very careful to kind of, you know, respect that this is their world and I w I don't you know, this is very much their lives as well. But sometimes do people do ask me to kind of step more into a mentoring role rather than a coach role. So you know, mentoring whereby I do kind of share my experience and offer a you know, so not necessarily advice, but just as I say offer my experience and suggestions where as opposed to coaching when it's it's it's very much the person

Millie McDevitt

and their their ideas and what's inside of them. So yes you yeah, I do, but I you know, then again I I like all coaches, do coach others who have who come from very, very different backgrounds and and different life experiences. And I think again, fundamentally it is all about what is it that that person wants now and like how can they get it. And that's as kind of coach is one of the things that I really feel that we can help people achieve and I don't describe myself as a career coach, even though a lot of people do come to me ultimately because they want to be thinking about their career or their professional side. Because I see a connection between every kind of all aspects of your life. Like I really don't think you can just focus solely on your job and career without thinking about what else is happening in your life.

Alicia Noble

Yeah, completely agree in that holistic approach. Millie, it's been so amazing to learn from you and to hear all about your experience. I do just want before we get onto the quick fire, I thought I will just ask the question in case someone out there is listening and thinking, how can I get in touch with Millie? Where can we find you?

Millie McDevitt

So the best thing is to go to my website. So that's www.milliemcdevitt.com, that's M I L L I E, McDevitt, M C D E V I double T, dot com. So Millie McDevitt dot com. And all of my details are on there. Join my email, my weekly email. It's very short and sweet. Sort of tells you a little you get to know a little bit more about me and like kind of my experiences and then and also kind of how I coach, how I might work with you and Maybe you'll see I what I say kind of resonates with you and you feel a connection and get in touch.

Alicia Noble

Amazing. And I'll also put the details in the show notes. And so as we close off today, a couple of quick fire questions. So the first one, who showed you what courage looked like?

Millie McDevitt

I'm gonna go with the person who showed me courage most recently, actually, rather than right at the beginning. And that is that's my those are my daughters, actually. We recently were on a on a on a bit of an adventure, unexpected. We were very fortunate to be away on holiday and and and suggested to kind of go on this mountain three-day mountain hike, completely unprepared, both physically and and mentally, I would say. I I I have to admit, I did not make it to the top of the mountain. But my my my one of my daughters did and I just thought, wow, that is the most courageous and brave thing I've seen anyone do to really push yourself both physically and mentally to the limit. And she did it, sh of course she did it with a guide, but she did it without me, without my husband and my other daughter made it almost that far. But she also had the courage to kind of recognise that was the limit, her limit. She wasn't going to be able to keep up with her elder sister and kind of keep going. But she'd she'd kind of done what she was able to do and was very proud of that. So that's I suppose the latest example of courage, recognising your own limits, knowing that kind of but being proud of that, and stepping away. So sometimes I think it's you need courage to just kind of say no and step away. But also and and then conversely courage to kind of take that leap of faith and do it.

Alicia Noble

I love that. That's such a good example and kind of the the two aspects to it. I think it's really important we shine a light on that as well. And what advice would you give your younger self?

Millie McDevitt

Gosh, I would probably say kind of have faith in what you're doing. Don't compare yourself to others as much. You have kind of you forged your own way. Also kind of just Kind of expect the unexpected really. Things aren't gonna go to plan, but that's okay.

Alicia Noble

Lovely. There's a final question because someone out there listening today, something may have resonated with them, or they're just thinking, I am literally at the edge of making this decision. I just need a little bit of courage to actually go ahead and do it. What would you tell them?

Millie McDevitt

I would say just really listen to yourself. Don't listen to other people. Just listen to what you really, really want. It might be that you want to do it, but conversely it might be that you actually really don't want to do it and someone else is telling you to do that. And I think both both things need courage, either doing it or not doing it. And say kind of going back to the mountain climbing example. So I yeah, my advice would be to just really Listen to what yourself, what you really want to do, as opposed to what other people want you to do.

Alicia Noble

So there's one more thing, Millie, that I want to ask of you. I have decided that I'm going to make a playlist because I've got my own playlist that's, you know, filled with a lot of guilty pleasures and things that put me in a good mood or give me courage in moments that I maybe feel a little bit down. And I thought actually asking each of my guests to contribute to a Courage Loading playlist might be a good idea. So tell me, what song would you like to add to our list?

Millie McDevitt

that's it's such a great idea, firstly. That's such a difficult question. Wow, what would I put on? Okay, so I'm gonna go with a song that I think will a lot of people will know, be very familiar, but it's very and it's I suppose maybe not so much a guilty pleasure, but but who knows, maybe it is. But it's it's Mr Brightside by The Killers. And it's a song that I first listened to I suppose when I can't remember when I f very first listened to it, but I definitely remember l listening to it as I was transitioning from into becoming a mother. So I either I just recently had my first child or is about to and and and then I've carried on listening to it. And it always brings me such kind of look joy and just lifts me up regardless of what else is happening. So and I get that just that extra bit of oomph when I kind of need it. And I can't listen to it without smiling. So yeah, that would be what I would put on.

Alicia Noble

Love it. It sounds perfect. Millie, thank you so much for joining us today. I've learned so much from you and your experience, and I'm sure my listeners have too. So to everyone out there listening, if you've loved this episode, if it's resonated, share it with a friend, like and review so more people can find this podcast. But that's it from us for now. Until next time, I'm Alicia Noble. This is Courage Loading. And remember, every story of change begins with a single moment of courage. So what's yours gonna be?