Make the Step Small Enough to Take

Marcelle Jans

Courage is really about doing something that makes me uncomfortable. And courage is the only way out when we feel fear. Most people are really afraid of doing the thing that they want to do. Courage is always what is most needed. But how do we become courageous and what does that look like? But I can say honestly, with everything I know to be true, that the thing that really lights us up, the thing that that really makes us feel alive or makes us feel whole, is just on the other side of that fear.

Alicia Noble

Hello and welcome to Courage Loading. I'm your host, Alicia Noble, leadership coach and career transition strategist. And today we have another episode of Courage Loading Moments. So this is where I invite a special guest to come along and talk to us about moments of courage in their career or leadership that changed the trajectory of things, not always bigger but in a way that fitted better with what they needed for that stage in their life. And today I'm so excited to welcome Marcelle Jans. Marcelle is a trainer and coach and specializes in personal leadership development. Welcome Marcelle.

Marcelle Jans

Thank you so much, Alicia. It's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for the invite.

Alicia Noble

So lovely to have you here. Marcelle, I mean, I've just given a little high level introduction, but tell us who is Marcelle Jans?

Marcelle Jans

Well, that's a great that's such a good question. I am working really mainly in personal leadership development, as you say, working as a trainer and a coach. Other than that, I'm a mother of two very growing daughters who are kind of one foot out the door. I live in the Netherlands, but I grew up in the US. I'm an advocator to support self-leadership for women. And I'm super excited to be in places where I can connect with others, I guess I would say.

Alicia Noble

That's amazing and I'm sure we're going to be talking a lot more about self-leadership because that's actually what connected us in the first place. Yes, that was where we met. But we'll get into that story. So what I wanted to do first was ask you, what does courage mean to you?

Marcelle Jans

So I think that's such a good question. For me, courage is really about doing something that makes me uncomfortable. And one of the reasons that I feel so inspired to do this is because you know, courage is the only way out when we feel fear. As a coach, I've been working as a personal development coach for the last five years or six years. And most people are really afraid of doing the thing that they want to do. And courage is always what is most needed. But how do we become courageous and what does that look like? I think it's a great topic to talk more about.

Alicia Noble

And do you think, was there a single moment where courage changed things for you, the way that you showed up or the way that you looked at things?

Marcelle Jans

So as a single mom, I'm I got divorced in 2019 and I've been a single mom since then. And so you know financial stability and security are so important. And I found myself when I got my coaching accreditation, I started working for a US coaching company for the Tony Robbins organization as a results coach and business mentor. And I worked there for five years and I worked really hard to get in there to do that. And it was a great job. It gave a lot of stability and security, a lot of growth and development. And then at one point, after five years, I thought, I'm actually not really using my own words anymore. I'm not really showing up as me. I'm no longer you know, being able to really focus on the things that I want or have the clients that I know I really wanted to help. The reason I became a coach was not you know, being found back in the clients that I had. So I had the courage to quit that role without really knowing what else I was gonna do. I just knew at one point I couldn't do any more of that. And I think the thing that I feared the most was that that decision would require me to step up and really shine the light on what I can do and what I have gone through and what I want women to know about me. And that that that was I think the courage that I knew that I would need in making that decision.

Alicia Noble

And you mentioned fear. Fear can be something that holds so many of us back. And you obviously had the courage to take action. But tell me a little bit more about that fear and how did you overcome it?

Marcelle Jans

So I had just a really big fear of the unknown, a fear of being good enough as an entrepreneur, I guess, to find my own clients or to build my own business, to have the courage really to step up and do that. And when you're working for a company, you don't always have to show up as yourself, right? So you get kind of comfortable. You get to go with the flow and, you know, be able to do the things that are asked of you kind of easily. And at one point maybe you're a bit on autopilot because it's easy. It's something you've already done, but it's like something has gone out in you that, you know suffers a little bit, I think. But fear for me really was the fear of the unknown, fear of being able to be successful enough financially and as a person, that my message was strong enough and that I could believe in myself enough to be able to put my message out there to get people to want to work with me directly or be part of a community that I wanted to build, that I was good enough to do that, that I could believe in myself enough. I think fear is just the not believing and not trusting in myself.

Alicia Noble

It's interesting because I often find with you mentioned, you kind of you take on the words and I'm paraphrasing, but you take on the words and almost the persona within that role. And one of the things I see often with women I work with is that identity, you know, that becomes so intertwined. I mean, I had the same experience when I was in corporate. And I think. You talk about the overcoming, recognizing the fear, first of all, and then overcoming It. And I just wonder what role did identity play in that for you as you went on to, you know, become an entrepreneur and set up your business?

Marcelle Jans

That's such a good question. The identity piece is the most difficult to overcome and to develop and to really feel aligned with. It's always there. It's always within you, but really having the courage to align to it and know that you're, you know, using everything you've got within you to be able to do that is really the opportunity. I think for me, what became obvious is that the identity that I had given myself as a coach working in this organization no longer fit. I could tell that I couldn't show up in the same way, I couldn't be as effective in the same way, I was struggling to feel connection with the clients and to really be able to work in the way that I wanted to. So I think there was already a push or something within me that said, you know, the identity that you want is not here in this role. And you're going to have to get a little bit uncomfortable to grow into the person that you actually are and be brave enough to fill those shoes. You know, it's like it's like a jacket, sometimes I say in coaching, right? Like identity is like a jacket. Sometimes it's super comfortable and it's well worn and it's something that we feel really easy in, but it's not really the thing that's giving us fulfillment. And normally that thing is the thing we fear the most. So taking off that jacket is the first step.

Alicia Noble

I quite like that analogy of a jacket because I'm also thinking about some of the jackets that I absolutely loved when I bought them but then you know a few years down the line you're like did I really like this? Why did I buy this? I don't love it as much anymore and so it's interesting how we can all outgrow certain spaces but sometimes we not well sometimes we're not ready to admit it or sometimes it is just really hard to do and a lot of it's driven by that fear. And so yes, tell me, was there something that you needed to unlearn as part of this whole process of moving on and stepping into this new space?

Marcelle Jans

I had to unlearn that I needed to be perfect. I always had this huge fear of being judged. And I have a you know, just so much a desire to want to do things really well. And I always want people to think I'm doing them really well. And that's just never gonna happen. The only way to get really good at something, I think, is to make mistakes, is to own up to the idea that you need help, to be able to realize that other people do what you want or are doing what you want to do and you can you know use them as an inspiration and not have to do it all yourself. So I think just being really kind to yourself and realizing that you may not have it all figured out right but that's okay. That's okay because you're you're you know if you're already having these kind of thoughts you're on the right track. Right, you're on the right track. The jackets come off and you're now wondering how to do that. And if you've got the ability to see what you need to unlearn, you're already doing great, I think.

Alicia Noble

I mean, that's so interesting because I mean, you know me as well. And I'm going to say that I'm a little bit of a perfectionist, even when I try not to be. But it's so hard, isn't it? Like, you know, it's easy to say it, but I think, you know, it's about the fact that we care about what we do. It's... It's not always about the perfection per se at the other end, but it can be hard to pull it apart.

Marcelle Jans

The other thing I would say here, and I talk a lot about this, is you know, we can either lead from the head or we can lead from the heart. And you know, if you're gonna do something courageous, it has to come from the heart, right? And the head is where my judgment lives, my need for perfection, my, you know, discomfort with vulnerability, that's all coming from the mind. And as soon as I open up my heart and just tell my story and, you know, live on my own you know, my own my own thoughts, my own kind of personal power. I always kind of really know what I need to do. And then it doesn't feel so awkward to be vulnerable or it doesn't feel so awkward to mess things up or to put something out that's not great. Because then at least I feel like I've tried or I'm creating momentum or something like that. So I think one of the big messages I'd love to share is really getting understanding for, you know, those voices, are they coming from the mind, or are they really part of who you are in your heart?

Alicia Noble

That, I mean, that really resonates just in terms of the, it's so easy to always kind of go to the head and the practical things. And when we're making change and we're making decisions around, you know, there's, there's real, real issues or real concerns around finances and needing to meet our responsibilities. But it's also important that we listen to, you know, what our heart's saying that we need. And as you went on your journey, you talk about vulnerabilities and having to face some of those. Was there anything that was particularly hard for you to do on this journey of setting up your own business and that leadership, anything that you really struggled with?

Marcelle Jans

So I knew that if I was going to do whatever the next step was, had to be fully aligned with who I am today. I knew that if that was the case, I would just have to be really honest. Honest with the struggles of the things I've gone through, the reason why I feel so passionate about personal leadership development, the mistakes I've made, the difficulties that I think happen when we go through really destabilizing events. I found it really hard to get divorced. I went through a really terrible online dating scam. And just felt super crippled and embarrassed by that. And just getting really honest with the idea of things that have happened to me and let that fuel the purpose of why I think I can really help others was probably the biggest the biggest opportunity. I want I wanted to say challenge, but it's been an opportunity. It's been an opportunity because actually being open about the things that have been challenging for me have made it really, really hard for me to feel like I've I could stay on my path, have given me so much insight into developing myself and being able to therefore really help others in a way that I don't think I was capable of maybe 10 years ago. I think the reality of what happens in life can either break us or they can strengthen us and create a greater opportunity for empathy and for connection with others that I think you need to you need to be honest about and put out there in order for that to be the reason, the why. This is really my why. And everything that I do comes back to that, giving people the courage and the self-leadership to you know manage their life in a different way if it's not working for them.

Alicia Noble

I think talking about things and sharing experiences, I think there's so many things that we often think I'm alone or this is only happening to me. And as soon as you hear someone say, you know, this happened to me too. And it's not about a competition. It's just about opening it up to make it sound or make it feel a little bit more normal. Because, you know, and I must admit, it's one of the things that I love about the fact that we are more open today in society and, you know, we have podcasts, we have social media. Yes, sometimes, you know, there's oversharing, but, you know, quite often it's just finding that space where you can relate and where you don't have to feel as isolated, you know, because of something that happened to you or something that you're experiencing. And you talk about obviously you are, you how you're using your work to help others and you alluded again to self-leadership. And so tell me a little bit about that. We had a conversation about this when we first met and the almost what is self-leadership?

Marcelle Jans

I remember saying the word self-leadership and your eyes lit up like, my God, that's what I focus on also. And it was just great. We met at a networking event, which was so great. You know, the ability to share your story and to be to realize you're not the only one, I think has been a has been a light bulb moment. Over the past year, seeing so many women courageously share their stories about things that had happened to them, mistakes they'd made, things they've had to overcome, really made me realize like I never, I never really shared, right? Because back to that feeling of wanting to be perfect. I never really wanted people to know how hard I found my marriage or how difficult it was to be divorced or how scary I thought it all was. I never really shared that. I never really shared any of that. I don't know why. I think I just thought people will think, I don't know, I'm weak or something or I can't cope. And so the idea of the idea of you know, especially women together in a group sharing how they feel is so liberating. So one of the one of the ways in which I knew that I could move forward aligning to my stories and supporting others was to create something that we call the Self-Leadership Academy. So it's really a community for women dedicated to personal development, to transformation, to self-leadership. So self-leadership for me means you know, sticking up for myself, aligning to who I am, really loving who I am, and having the courage to make the right choices that feel good in my heart and not always in my head, to say the things that make me uncomfortable, but I really want people to know about them anyway, because maybe they can relate, right? Maybe they can relate, maybe we can support each other, maybe they are able to offer a new perspective on something. I've seen so many beautiful results happen in the women's groups that I love to work with. And I really wanted to establish one myself, offering group programs specifically with the opportunity for people to get together and share and talk about ideas and just so that I think people get the opportunity to feel seen and heard and know that they're not the only ones who are going through that difficult thing at the moment. I've had so many aha moments of other people that I thought, wow, they've gone through that and look at where they are now. Or, you know, look at that success story. Like I'm not sure I would have ever had the courage to do that. And I was really inspired. I've been really inspired. As soon as you start to become really honest about your own story, you start to realize how many amazing people are out there doing great things also from a challenging place, or they didn't always know that path either, but they somehow knew to keep going or to ask the right questions or to not give up. So that inspires me a lot to do the same.

Alicia Noble

It's so empowering when women get together, share their stories and just build each other up. I think there's this whole idea for me around we can only go so far on our own. When we get together and when we really kind of give each other that support, I think there's nothing better than that. I joined your Spark women's group, which I'm sure you'll tell us a little bit about. But, you know, just again, meeting different women, coming into that room and just talking about our experiences and also motivating each other and supporting each other. I think it's just such a great environment that you're building. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about Spark?

Marcelle Jans

Thanks, Alicia. So indeed, one of the ideas that we came up with was to create an online community platform. And we called it Spark, because you know, a lot of us are kind of looking for that next step, that new client, that new opportunity to do something differently, gaining some kind of inspiration for what we're doing. And I wanted to facilitate that. So we created a I worked together with a great other coach called Jolanda Schoneveld. And together we facilitate Spark in Dutch and in English. It's an online community platform and it's specifically designed to allow women to get to meet other people. We have some great women in our network and offering the opportunity to say hey introduce yourself let yourself be seen what do you want to celebrate today? What are you struggling with? Where do you need some support? And then I just always assume that whoever they're in that breakout room with is exactly who they need to be with on that day to give them exactly the message that they need. The feedback has been really positive around feeling really energized at the end of it, which is really one of our motives, right. Everybody I think struggles every now and again, right, to keep up, to keep staying up, to stay in the positive. And it's a great sort of injection of energy. And again for all the reasons we've already said. Women are supporting one another, they're sharing their network. We're making agreements. And then there's a WhatsApp group that you can join if you want to be held accountable, if you want to stay in touch, if you want to have tips from me or updates. It's a great community and it's really one of the things that I feel really excited about because it was something that I really wanted to do and share and hope that that makes it easier for other people who are joining us.

Alicia Noble

And one of the things that I really found in kind of my journey of change and that idea of, you know, I know I want to do something but I don't quite have the courage, is by joining in groups like this, you said it's that opportunity to kind of be seen because so often I find that many women that I work with and again myself included I used to really enjoy kind of being in the shadows and I'd convinced myself that that was the space I wanted to be in and so all of a sudden you know when I wanted to do something and actually put myself out there it can feel really overwhelming but I think if you've got that opportunity to do it in a safe space I mean the last session that I went to for Spark I think we were about six women on the call so again you know a really safe space you can try and test things if you want in there. Even something simple as introducing yourself. Sometimes that can feel quite overwhelming when you're a new environment. So again, I think creating that space is amazing. And that's one of the first steps around self-leadership as well, like kind of seeking out these opportunities to do that. That's really amazing. And I love the accountability too. I think it's... I often wake up and think, I'm going to do this. And then a week later, I still haven't done it. But when you share that and you have that sense of accountability and it's not to put pressure on yourself, but it's actually just it can be a real motivator in terms of getting things done.

Marcelle Jans

I completely agree. The other thing that I've noticed is that it's really good to say out loud what it is you want or what it is that you feel like you need. Maybe you didn't even know you were gonna say that until you said it. But I also noticed for myself the things that I say out loud are the things that I start to become part of the radar that I'm working on. I it creates focus and attention and it makes it easier. So I agree. And you know you mentioned a safe space. Like I also think that it's really important that we create a safe space for women to be able to share and to speak about things that that they you know, want some advice on or support on or just to be able to offer some new ideas. I think it can be really challenging. Most a lot of us are working on our own or you know are can isolate ourselves when things get challenging. I'm definitely one of those people, you know, again because it's easier to be alone because then there's no opportunity for judgment. Right. So but unlearning that and knowing that there is no judgment in a group of women who are wanting to support and help each other is really refreshing. And makes it just like a really nice space to share whatever feels like it would make it easier for you to say out loud.

Alicia Noble

So Marcelle, if you look back on when you first made that decision to quit and to start your own business and looking at everything that you've achieved, what would you say is the highlight of all of this? What has made it all worth it to kind of take that step, that courageous step and do the thing you wanted to do?

Marcelle Jans

I think it's a great sense of fulfillment that whatever I'm doing now is exactly in line and aligned with what I wanted. So I haven't figured it all out yet, and it's it's not, it's still growing, and we're still learning, but it feels really good to make decisions from a place of complete authenticity. And I know that might sound really corny or whatever, but there's a difference. There's a different vibration than when you're showing up and you're kind of going with the flow versus, you know, showing up and knowing this is exactly how I want this to be. This is exactly the you know the focus I want this to have. And that feeling of sharing, of, of hearing, you know, clients give feedback that that it's it is a great safe space to share or they're getting benefit from our group coaching program or that they're starting to see things from a different perspective, then I really know I'm on the right track. Cause that that was really what I wanted. That's the mission for the work that I want to do now, that that it's aligning with women who I think can benefit from understanding the benefits of stronger self-leadership and more courageous, authentic leadership and be you know seeing what that can bring them in their life.

Alicia Noble

And I just want to say I could feel that energy in that response because you completely lit up as you as you were talking about that. So that authenticity really shone through. Marcelle, I want to I want to end off with a couple of quick fire quick fire questions. But before I do that, do you want to tell our listeners how they can reach you or get in touch or connect with you?

Marcelle Jans

Thank you. Well, our website is theselfleadershipacademy.com. Or you can connect with me on LinkedIn and join our self-leadership page. Then you'll you'll be updated on what we're doing. Spark meets once a month in both Dutch and in English, and we're also starting to run in-person events here in the Netherlands and online. So I would say reach out if you feel called to do so. We'd love to grow the community and we'd also be super curious about other people who can offer opportunities to share connect.

Alicia Noble

Lovely, thank you and I'll definitely recommend the group as I said I join the Spark sessions and I will add the details in the show notes as well but just to close off because you've shared so much with us today but I as I said there's a couple of quick fire questions just to wrap it all up so tell me who showed you what courage looks like

Marcelle Jans

So one of the books that I just finished reading is Believe It by Jamie Kern Lima. She is the founder of IT Cosmetics, and I've come across her before in events that I've attended and her podcast. I think she's so courageous in you know, saying the things that I think probably people in the beauty industry would never say. She is wholeheartedly authentic about everything she does. And it makes me want to buy her products. Like I can see the power of, you know, she's so honest and open about who she is that it just makes me feel like I don't need to be judgy about doing it myself.

Alicia Noble

Love that. I hadn't heard of it so I will go and check it out. And then what did you tell your younger self?

Marcelle Jans

If I could if I could tell my younger self, I would I would be like, chill out. Try to relax. I get so like caught up in trying to make it all okay and to do the right thing and to make it look like it's the right thing. And you know, I don't know. I would say like worry less and enjoy more for sure. Because it's it's all it's all gonna be fine. It's all gonna work out. So

Alicia Noble

So true, I can do with a little bit of chill out. And then I'm, you know, we are joined by a number of listeners and you've shared so much today, but I know people tune into this podcast really kind of looking for that encouragement and motivation and to find their moment that they can take action. So if there's someone listening today that, you know, they want to take that next step, but they're not quite there yet. What would you tell them to help them make their decision?

Marcelle Jans

Well, I would say I empathize and I understand I've been there. And there's a million reasons why it makes sense to stay there. I get that also. But I can say honestly, with everything I know to be true, that the thing that really lights us up, the thing that that really makes us feel alive or makes us feel whole, is just on the other side of that fear. And that's why I think your podcast is so important because if you could just make a little bit of courage, get created a little bit of courage to move past that fear, things start to open up, things start to make sense, you start to get your voice back. You start to feel like I've got this. You know things, you know, things start to happen. I just was in the process of starting the Self-Leadership Academy and I met you, right? And maybe it's good to share that that we mentor each other and help each other. You're an amazing support unit for me and great opportunity to collaborate. And you know we I didn't know you before. So I just feel like you know as soon as you show a little bit of courage or set the intention to want to get past the fear, I think things start showing up for us. I think you know it's like you just need to kind of make the jump in a small step and make it as you know easy for yourself as possible. Make it as small as possible to break through the fear. And then you just start to see that the courage starts to open up and starts to move and it becomes easier because now there's momentum. And you before you realize it, like that's in the past, and you can just keep moving forward. So have the like have the courage. Everything you want is on the other side of that decision that you're struggling with and struggling with. And I would also say like reach out, reach out to other people who've been in the same place, because I am surrounded by other you know, coaches, other people that I could talk to. As soon as I started to ask for advice, it became obvious to me that I needed to do something different or like don't be afraid to ask for advice because I think we make it so hard for ourselves to see the own box we've put ourselves in. Most other people from an outsider perspective, can give us a much different insight and can give us some ideas that make it easier. So I would say don't suffer in silence, reach out would be the other advice I would say.

Alicia Noble

Amazing advice. Thank you for sharing that. I think there's so much we can take away from that. So, Marcelle, thank you so much for joining us today. I just want to ask one more thing of you. So I have this little I have what I call my power playlist and on the days when I'm not feeling that great or where I feel like I just need a little bit of motivation, you know, there's these songs on that playlist, some of them are guilty pleasures that just kind of make me dance and sing along, but so I thought actually for our moments series of Courage Loading I thought why not start a playlist where I can get some recommendations from my guests on that song that helps load their courage. So do you have a song that I can add to the playlist?

Marcelle Jans

I love that. I love that idea. You know, one of I mean, I have those days too. I have those days a lot. I might seem confident, but often I'm doubting myself, right? It's that whole judgment piece and it's a constant battle to shift out of the head into the heart. You know, this is a daily practice. And music is one of the things I can do to move my body, to get me out of my head and into my body. So it's a it's a sort of morning ritual to dance around here to a song that really lights me up, to know that I've got the courage to do whatever I need to do. And my favorite song at the moment is Confident by Demi Lovato. Is it Dami or Demi? I don't know. I'm sorry if I'm I'm sorry if I'm saying it wrong.

Alicia Noble

I thought it's Demi, but I could be wrong, but I know which one you're talking about.

Marcelle Jans

I love this song so much. And it's a great reminder that the confidence is within us. We just have to tap into it.

Alicia Noble

Love that. I'm going to add it to my personal playlist too. Marcelle thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, knowledge and experience with me, with our listeners and to everyone listening thank you for spending the time with us. I look forward to you joining us again next time, but until then, this is Courage Loading. I'm Alicia Noble. And remember, every story of change begins with a single moment of courage. So what's yours going to be?